Ep 97. How to be the change you want to see in the world with Nova Reid

Apr 13, 2020 | Anxiety, Blog, Podcast

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Nova Reid is an advocate for equality and was recently nominated as a Positive Role Model for race equality at the National Diversity Awards for the third year running.

She is a certified NLP Life Coach, with an extensive professional background in mental well-being and is a frequent mentor at the Women of the World Festival London. She is regularly invited to provide expert media commentary for BBC and Sky News on race and diversity matters.

I am taking her Anti-racism course and I highly recommend it. 

We chat about:

  • Being the change you want to see in the world 
  • Her anti-racism work 
  • What are micro-aggressions
  • How our unconscious biases can cause harm, Nova Reid gets the courage to do the work she does and to be an ally

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Intro: Hello, and welcome to the Calmer-You podcast. This is your host Chloe Brotheridge, I’m a coach, a hypnotherapist and the author of “the anxiety solution, and brave new girl.” And this podcast is all about helping you to become your calmest, happiest, and most confident self. So in today’s episode, I am speaking to Nova Reid, she is an inspirational speaker, a diversity campaigner, and mentor. She’s an advocate for equality, I was recently nominated as a positive role model for race equality at the National diversity awards for the 3rd year running. She’s also a certified n.l.p. life coach, she has an extensive professional background in mental wellbeing, and she’s a frequent mentor at the women of the World Festival in London.

She’s also regularly invited to speak on BBC and Sky News on race and diversity matters, I have been learning so much from Nova, I am taking her anti-racism course, and I highly recommend that you check that out if you are inspired by this episode and want to learn more. I think she’s doing incredible work in the world and we can see topics such as how we can be the change that we want to see in the world.

We talk about her anti-racism work, and we get into what micro aggressions are, and why they can be so harmful. We talk about our own unconscious biases which we all have by the way and how we need to start to examine them so that we can overcome them.

And I ask Nova how she gets the courage to do the work that she does because she really is putting herself out there, doing incredibly brave work. We also get into how to be an ally and what exactly that is. So if you want to get some free resources to help you to become your calmest, happiest and most confident self, you can head over to my website, Calmeryou.com/free, into your e-mail address in there and I’ll send those resources straight away, so let’s get into the interview with Nova Reid.

Chloe: Welcome Nova, thanks so much for joining me today. How are you doing?

Nova Reid: I’m good, thank you for having me.

Chloe: I’m really looking forward to this conversation, can you just explain to people who maybe haven’t seen your work before, what it is you do and how you got to where you are today?

Be the change you want to see in the world

Nova Reid: I do so many things, I sometimes struggle to answer this question, but essentially I help people be the change that they want to see in the world and I do that through Anti-racism education, speaking, training organizations, and also a writer as well. So it’s a bit of a mixed bag but ultimately to help people be the change of that.

Chloe: Yeah because so many of us I think want to do that, but don’t really know how or don’t know how to get started, or it’s a very kind of inspiring idea to want to be that change.

So I came across your work because I was looking for somebody that teaches what you teach, and I was part of a mastermind with a group of American women who were very forward thinking and talking a lot about things like anti-racism work and white supremacy, and a lot of the people that they were referring to were American people and I was really looking for a super British person who I could learn about this topic from.

And then I saw you speak on the project love podcast, and I knew that you were the perfect person to learn about this from. Can you talk a bit more about your anti-racism work and what that is that maybe people who don’t really know much about that topic?

Nova Reid: Yes, so I am a woman who is black and I grew up in what was quite rural Hartfordshire, it’s changed now, I grew up in the eighty’s, so it’s a very different place and I realized from a really young age that I was different and I didn’t fit in but I didn’t know why until I was about 7 years old, and I became aware that I was black and became aware that I was different to the majority of people around me, including the characters I saw in books. the people on t.v, and so I guess that was the start of my story in this anti-racism journey.

Because feeling like I didn’t fit in, I felt like I didn’t belong, I experienced sort of covert racism and also been told to go back to my own country, having England flags waved at me, monkey chants, so much. And I struggled hugely with my self-esteem as a result of that and I had already learned at the age of 7 that my value as a human being somehow wasn’t the same as my white peers. And so that was kind of a threat that was present and every single life event became reoccurring.

So when I couldn’t find hairdressers who worked with afro hair, when I couldn’t… when I went to the acting industry and there was no makeup foundation for my skin type, and when I was older into my acting journey and doing dances well when we had a teacher, I would always remember his name Bill Drysdale, he used to dance with the Gene Kelly’s of this world saying credible but he wanted us to wear nude tights and we were about to do a performance a few days later and he said right I need you all in nude tight, flesh colored tights.

I remember being with my peers on stage, and I had to put my hand up to this man I found very intimidating anyway, and say there are no nude tights for my skin tone, and he fundamentally just didn’t get it. And he ends up shouting at me, and I remember being really embarrassed and humiliated and on the day of the show had to turn up and I wore black tights and so the same thing happened again, why are you wearing black tights – because there’s no nude tights, it was just these tiny little things.

These every day experiences of not being included that reinforce that my value as a black woman was not the same. And I think it was my wedding engagement that really spurred me on, it was the same thing I wanted make up inspiration I wanted hair inspiration I wanted to see what these beautiful wedding dresses would look like on my skin. And there was nothing, there was just this dark silence and at that point I was 30 years old and much more confident in myself not tolerating this anymore.

So I started a wedding blog initially, they just talked about that and my story resonated with other women and couples, and then that spiral to me sort of doing a diversity consultancy and then becoming the voice of inclusion in an industry that was very homogenous, that then led me to being invited to attend the royal wedding with Harry and Megan, and it just culminated in that really just having very honest and open conversations about race. And before that I worked in mental health, so I’ve always been an advocate for the underdog.

Chloe: And can we touch on the Harry and Meghan thing, I suppose that’s something that’s happening in the media recently.

Nova Reid: Oh yes.

Chloe: And I know on Instagram you talked about that, there are some posted videos about this. Can you share about what you’ve noticed about the response has been?

Nova Reid: I mean there’s so much, what in particular.

Chloe: Well I suppose a lot of people saying it’s it seems that Meghan has been on the receiving end of racism by the press, and a lot of other people saying no that’s not true and then kind of debate about this topic.

Racism is a form of trauma

Nova: Yeah, so a lot of the work I do is about helping people to understand that racism is not an opinion. Racism is a form of trauma. So I then reframe it in other circumstances of trauma, do we find ourselves debating whether somebody has experienced trauma or not? And the answer is mostly probably not. But for me, it was evidence in the fact that when Harry and Meghan 1st started dating they were receiving racism and racial undertones from the press. Harry initiated a statement asking, calling for it to stop.

So the evidence is there. We forget is that racial discrimination and racism is learned behavior. It’s not something we’re born with. It’s a byproduct of existing and operating in a country that legalized slavery and oppression for over 400 years. That’s going to leave a residue on us.

Whether we don’t consciously think we are racist, we will have inherent racist programming and racial biases within us.

But that suppressed prejudice, that learned behavior hasn’t just gone away, it’s still there. It comes out in the behavior and it could be seen in some of the press articles, the comparisons of Meghan doing Comparative things to Kate and receiving abuse from it where Kate received praise. So these undertones that people are talking about that are harder to spot than ever.

Chloe: You know I think that’s one of the things I really took… I think it was in your Ted Talk were you actually talking about it’s not the Klu Klux Klan type racists are causing the most harm, it’s actually the micro questions in the smaller things that add up to a big difference, and actually that has a big effect on people’s mental health. Can you talk a little bit about that kind of?

Why I don’t do anti-racism work

Nova Reid: Yeah, so it’s why I do anti-racism work because I think we’ve become accustomed to only as satiating racism with a single over that intentional and conscious act of hate. So when we start talking about racism now in modern… while I say modern terms, they are not modern, in wider terms People think that if it wasn’t conscious or intentional, that it’s not racism but actually racism exists as a system of oppression and so if we look at the definition of systemic racism, you will have a better understanding of what

I’m talking about so it’s the everyday discrimination, it’s the racial stereotypes it’s the assumptions that we make about people. Whether they’re successful or not, whether they might cause harm or not, whether they might be a criminal, when we think of knife crime, what’s the 1st image that comes to mind of a person holding a knife, what do they look like, what’s their race?

And it’s I’m picking those biases and seeking out whether they are truthful or not, or whether you’re just perpetuating a narrative that holds people back. So microaggression, is a form of every day discrimination and they mostly happen on a subconscious level but sometimes they’re also conscious.

And they are a way of making us… they’re a way of showcasing that somebody doesn’t quite fit in or somebody is… I’m from Britain, now where are you really from? Those types of things are micro aggression, wanting to touch somebody’s hair, they’ve got afro hair, can I touch your hair? Or just touching it, that’s micro aggression.

Chloe: So it’s those things that people are maybe unconsciously not even realizing that they’re causing harm?

Nova Reid: Yeah.

Chloe: And the fact… and you said you know you teach a lot about how the fact that we don’t examine our biases is perpetuating this.

Nova Reid: Yes.

Chloe: And I don’t know if it was you that said or I don’t know this is a so common saying that as white people we don’t recognize it because we just have grown up in this culture where that is this unconscious biases, you know we think of ourselves as good people. And we may well be good people but it means that we don’t then examine our unconscious biases.

Being part of the solution

Nova Reid: Then nothing changes and I think that’s where we’ve got stuck. If we get stuck in one definition of racism which was 1st founded in 1902 or on the horrible people in the Ku Klux Klan, all these horrible far right groups, they’re bad people someone like me even remotely suggesting that we all have some form of racist programming within us as an unavoidable byproduct of being born into a system that legalized oppression.

We want to reject it, Well I’m not like that, no I’m going to reject that, I’m going to not listen to what you say. And it’s the not listening, it’s the defensiveness and it’s taking offense from that that prevents us from actually seeking to like oh my gosh, how am I… how can I help be part of the solution, I had no idea.

Right, now I know, what can I do to help? And the defensiveness and the denial in the offense gets in the way that she helping be part of change. And I think what makes micro aggressions so dangerous is… those tiny examples…

The reason why they are so damaging is because of the frequency, the consistency and the fact that they’re not addressed. They just keep happening over and over again every single day by well-meaning people who don’t generally know that they are contributing.

Chloe: Yeah, so it’s just someone or people constantly sending us messages that you don’t belong or something you know and it kind of cause a big difference. And then one of the things you mention in your course which I’m a member of is… and it is brilliant, thank you so much for making it. The Harvard implicit bias test.

Nova Reid: Yes.

Chloe: And you know can you explain what that is?

Nova Reid: I don’t want to give too much away.

Chloe: Yeah sure.

The Harvard implicit bias test

Nova Reid: But I mean I can’t actually remember when The Harvard Implicit Bias test came out, it’s been around for years but it is a test that Harvard… it’s the most extensive test to explore what our abilities are and they are everything from exploring your racial biases right through to gender, class, and it’s an invitation for you to explore where your unknown biases might be.

There’s a series of tests you need to do and at the end of it, it gives you more information about where your biases might be. Bringing in your unconscious bias to the conscious means that you can actually do something to change it. If you have negative associations with people who are black as a result of doing this bias test, or people of a lower class than you, then that is an invitation that you need to reframe those negative programming you have with positive right?

Go and spend your time seeking out authors, seeking out experts who are from a lower class who are doing incredible things, who are elevating, who are… You know going to seek out doctors who are black, whatever it is, so that you start reprogramming that negative association with something that’s positive so then you’re not perpetuating these stereotypes, because it comes out in our behavior. I think that’s the thing, we think it doesn’t, but it does. Everything from who we want to work with, who want to promote who we fear, who we automatically trust who we undermine. Its effects every day communication.

Chloe: It’s reminding me of the work of Cullum Young, that says when we summarize things it comes out another way and we need to bring everything to the surface, to realize what we’re dealing with and then we can heal and then we can you know clean up our behavior on what we’re doing.

Nova Reid: Completely.

Chloe: But you know it is an interesting test. I’ve done it and it’s not a nice thing to admit that you have biases, and I know that a lot of people that start to look into this often kind of horrified when they realize that they have these racist thoughts, and it’s quite uncomfortable.

Nova Reid: Well, I would say yes, that means you’re listening. Also as a black woman, as somebody who is in the black and brown community it’s equally uncomfortable trying to navigate day to day life dealing with you being of it and you say you know it’s necessary for change, it’s necessary. We are not going to make change in our comfort zones, it’s just not possible.

Chloe: Yeah, absolutely yeah. And I think we need to be a brave enough to look at ourselves basically and do it because there was a quote, I’ve heard a quote, I don’t have if it’s your quote but your liberation is bound up with mine.

We all want the same thing

Nova Reid: That one wasn’t mine but that’s a good one and you know. So yeah absolutely. The argument is ultimately we all want the same thing, we want peace, we want good health, we want happiness and joy in our lives. I mean we just want to be able to live in peace and in it if there is a group of people who are not able to do that, then that has a knock on effect because if I use it in terms of work if somebody is in a minority identity, so they are black or LGBTQ, and they are not given access to the same opportunities, they are the recipient of daily micro aggression, they are of ordered, they are made to feel like they don’t belong every single day.

That impacts what you bring to the table, that impacts your confidence, yourself esteem, creativity, innovation. And if that is stifled, then that has a knock on effect with the work, with your community, with how you engage with relationships. So if everybody is able to shine and be themselves and thrive. Ripple effect, I think the social climate is a great example of that. We’re not thriving right now and it has a knock on effect on the economy.

Chloe: That’s so interesting, I’m reading a book “a moment called The Spirit Level,” I can’t remember who it’s by, but it’s all about kind of inequality and talking about how when there’s more equality in a society, the whole society does better. The places with less equality don’t do well, so we need to all rise up together. How do you find the courage to do the work that you do because you know I’ve seen you put yourself out there, you know I imagine you come up against a lot of difficult opinions and that sort of thing.

Nova Reid: I do it, because I want to answer this in two part, I do it because I got so sick of being at the effect of race discrimination every day, either in micro aggression. I thought it is so intolerable for me, I need to be part of the change in some way. So I consciously chose to do something about it.

Before I started working for myself while I had quite eclectic career, I used to be an actress and singer which I think helps with the public speaking and having courage to stand and be visible. But after that I worked in mental health as a wellbeing caregiver for just under 10 years, and I was working… I also working in disability during that time and the 2 intersected obviously.

And during that time I had to go for a lot of self-interrogation and a lot of personal development to be able to do that role, to be able to hold space for people who were having suicidal thoughts, who are clinically depressed, or have bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, whatever it may be.

I was working with some very very vulnerable human beings, and so in order for me to support them and help them learn to manage and overcome periods of extreme illness I need to go through my own therapy. I needed to have clinical supervision every fortnight. And I was just like a sponge, I was just taking in a lot of stuff, and so part of the beginnings of psychotherapy training is a lot around boundaries. Managing your professional boundaries, making sure that you know if someone bring something up I’m not projecting my own stuff on to them.


So it’s a lot around self-awareness, and so I already did that work which I think gave me the foundation to hold difficult spaces, and also be present in difficult spaces. On the flip side of that I have regular breaks for self-care, I’m very self-aware.

So if I’m becoming fatigued I know I need to step back I have boundaries with my contact hours, and equally I have learned from learning the hard way, I have to be very selective with who I show up to do this work for. So it’s not for people that want to debate whether racism exists or not, I’m doing the work for those who already know that it exists and they know that they are complicit by silent default and actually what can I do to help.

Doing this work for those people who are in that space is an absolute joy, it also means the work is more effective and it’s like a ripple effect. You can see it working and how then having conversation with their peers, colleagues, family, partners, it has a knock-on effect.

Chloe: Yeah, wow and that is an interesting topic about having conversations with people. I’ve noticed it myself recently, it’s funny it’s like suddenly feels like a light, like a penny drop, something like I’m seeing things everywhere.

Nova Reid: Yes.

Chloe: And noticing… like I was talking to someone the other day about this and they were like oh doesn’t everyone experience that and I was like that’s exactly the thing. I mean you can probably explain this better, like I is this something that happens whereby people kind of minimize people’s experiences basically and just because of as white people we haven’t experienced it, so we think.

Nova: It doesn’t, because you haven’t… generalizing, because you haven’t experienced it yourself that it doesn’t exist and while because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean that it’s rife in this is a real issue and there are so many stats, data studies, race disparity, audit quality that we’ve got all of this data that’s been collected for years, and nothing’s changed because what happens when we try to bring up incidences of racism is that it’s minimized.

Your gasless, you may to believe that you’re being oversensitive that it’s all in your head. When actually we’ve already got the data that shows the impact of not resolving this, and there was a study I think I mentioned in my ted talk that came out I think a week before my ted talk, I was like alright great this is going in the talk by The American Academy of Pediatrics I think, and they were talking about…

So there were lots of studies at beginning of this year actually and also it was the end of last year showing how racism in primary schools is increasing. Problematic, we’re teaching our behavior to our children. And that actually if we care about a world where our children are healthy and happy we actually need to intentionally take steps to address racism when it is brought up rather than minimizing it, explaining in a way when it wasn’t racism, it was this it with everything else but racism because it’s easier for it to be everything else it’s less painful for it to be everything else and meanwhile it just continues.

Chloe: And so does that happen because we don’t want to admit that we have these biases and so we suppress that, and they can’t be that or is that what happens?

‘White fragility’

Nova Reid: I don’t know how in depth you want go, there is a concept called “White fragility,” by a sociologist and author called Dr. Robin D’Angelo, and she’s a white lady and she was a diversity and inclusion trainer for over 25 years. And she started noticing when she was going into organizations, and teaching about equality and teaching about racism, that she would receive the same defensive responses from the white people who were in the room. So much so she could start to predict patterns of behavior, so she went away and did research and studies on this. And so it’s an element of defensiveness, there is… we’ve never… we don’t…

So I say I as a black person who was raised to talk about race comfortably, I can say the word black, brown, white without any attachment to it, and just use them as descriptive words. So many of my white peers were taught not to even see color so that’s coming from 2 different starting points, so if you were taught not to even see color that means by default you’re not recognizing the way that discrimination exists and the way that it’s impacted by it.

One, is because it’s not your lived experience but 2 because you’re choosing not to see it because you’ve been taught that by seeing it and by focusing on it is a bad thing when actually it’s very necessary like with any condition, like with gender inequality, and with trying to find a cure for cancer, we don’t solve the problem by not shining a spotlight on it. In fact that’s what we need to do 1st before we can really do understand what we’re dealing with and we don’t do that with race, we don’t talk about it.

Chloe: So if we’re… if people are thinking that it’s a good thing to say I don’t see color but actually, there are these unconscious things or you know suppressed biases and thoughts and beliefs then things is going to continue as they are?

Nova Reid: Yes, and also it’s untruthful, of course you see color. Even there was a study done on people who were blind and even they hold racism, it’s fascinating. So it fundamentally doesn’t make sense but yeah it’s a common way for some white peers to have been raised.

Chloe: You know it’s very interesting, if people are thinking that they want to learn more about this and educate themselves more or be the change are there things that you tend to suggest people do 1st?

White supremacy challenge

Nova Reid: Not prescriptively. Generally speaking people who find my work have already had some kind of awakening, they’ve read Reni Edge Lottie’s book, “why I’m no longer talking about race,”. Some people found to doing Lala Saeed’s with me and my white supremacy challenge which has just come out as a book. Other people are just curious because they want to raise socially conscious children. Whether they’re raising white children or mixed heritage children, or black children, I don’t want them repeating the same generational cycles that we have continued to repeat for centuries.

And so how do I stop it? I don’t want to pass things that I’ve not dare to uncover on to my children. So how can I raise them to be a kind-hearted human being?

So I often find that a lot of the people who comes to my work are mostly women, mothers but not exclusively, who want to raise socially conscious children who are open and kind hearted and can help be great allies for people who are in minority identities.

Chloe: Ok.

Nova Reid: Yeah, so that is often a motivator as well. But generally speaking, they would have come either by following somebody on Instagram and having conversations or reading, they would have done a little bit of reading before they come to me.

Chloe: And you mentioned being an ally there. Can you explain what it means to be an ally if you haven’t heard that even before, what would you describe that as?

Nova Reid: I might flip that around. Can I ask you that question?

Chloe: So I would say it was someone that is educating themselves, looking at themselves, and then being alert to how they can play a role in starting to change things.


Nova Reid: Yeah it supporting, it’s being… it’s just waking up, it’s being aware of how our lives are compounding our difference because of the society to privileges that some groups of people will have based purely on who they are and how they were born and there’s no blame there.

It’s just facts. White privilege is a term that was founded on a 40-year study by somebody who Theodore Allen. He as an academic and also an activist in civil rights movement. He did this huge in-depth research that found out that it was originally white skin privilege, that people who were white were getting more societal access and more society a privilege under the same social economic circumstances than people who are people of colour.

And that was done over 40 years ago. It’s recognizing that as a result of having white skin and living in a white majority country, you’re not compounded by, you’re not impacted by racism, you’re impacted by systemic discrimination because the color of your skin or your name.

The same way as an able bodied person I have automatic have privileges because I can travel freely without having to worry about whether my Wheel chair can literally physically fit through a door because there are so many buildings that are not wheel chair accessible.

Also those are the kinds of things that I talk about when I talk about privilege. Being an ally is recognizing that those things exist. In order for a group of people to be continuously systemically oppressed and disadvantaged, it means a group of people have to be advantaged and that’s the component we don’t look at.

And an ally is aware of what the advantages are and also see the disadvantages, so they can help communicate and be part of change, and help in helping other people understand.

Chloe: Yeah, I suppose it’s something that when you’re white you don’t think about. You just take it for granted. It’s so many things that we take for granted. You mentioned before the hair dressers and people not questioning where you’re from and that sort of thing.

And then when you start to learn about it more you realize what other people have to deal with. Makes you realize… I suppose people can get defensive about that, can’t they? I think they might say that I’m white but I grew up on a council estate home, I’m privileged. And that’s a separate thing, isn’t it?


Nova Reid: It’s a separate thing, so the word privilege is quite loaded. I also think we’ve got huge issues with class in the UK that have not been addressed either. You hear the Word privilege and you automatically think wealth or greed.

You can be somebody who lives on a council estate in a working class background who is white and receives discrimination because of that, but you won’t see racism on top of it. That’s what we’re talking about and what the studies are showing

Chloe: You know I’m wondering about this is if it’s something we need to get better as human beings in general, but being Ok with kind of being criticized or being afraid of being wrong without taking it so personally in a way, instead of looking at the thing in itself and being able to work through it and kind of listen to that rather than becoming offend defensively and going on an attack.

Are you listening?

Nova Reid: I think it’s key and I talk about it a lot. And there is sort of anti-racism where there are… The quickest form of defense is to go on the attack, so then we’re just attacking, no one’s listening.

We’ve not been able to hold conversations, interracial conversations. So I can talk about this stuff with my black and brown colleagues till the cows come home.

I’ve only started really talking to my white friends about this stuff in the past 18 months to 2 years. Because then we get to a point where we can start hearing somebody’s pain or trauma and validating that experience. That is a key components healing, I think all of this generally is about mass healing. We need it desperately. And that starts with a desire to be comfortable and then deeply deeply listen.

Chloe: Yes, it’s interesting what you said about a friends because I was hearing from someone, a black woman, he said that she could never really connect with a white friend and there was always this thing that they… and it felt weird to her, she wanted to connect more but she felt like she couldn’t completely kind of be herself, as opposed to little things that were going on for her.

Loosing my fear

Nova Reid: It’s really common. It’s meant that some relationships have not survived. Especially as I’ve leaned more into anti-racism work. I’m now being myself and not feeling frightened about having these conversations as I did before. It makes some people extremely uncomfortable. If I can’t be myself around you then that’s not good for my mental health.

It’s very much about being able to be who you are. For so many ways the black community in the UK had been taught to assimilate as a form of survival. Keep your head down and don’t say anything, be grateful.

Chloe: Is there anything else that you think is important for people to know that you want to share as like a final point about your work and what people can do maybe to start their journey into this? Maybe you can share about your courses and things like that.

Nova Reid: Well, I think as a society are on the cusp of change. We’re all feeling the discomfort of an uncertain political climate.

We need people to help bridge the gap to understand more and to help us because racism is a form of trauma, and I think if anyone is consciously aware of that. I strongly urge that they engage in anti-racism work, it’s not about being a good or bad person it’s about being someone who wants to be part of a very very powerful and necessarily solution.

Tedx Talk

So yeah I have a have a Tedx talk about what might be a good starting point, not all superhero heroes wear capes and have a listen to that, have a look at that. And I also have a online anti-racism course which you’re doing Chloe where we can just go deep and wide with understanding who we are self interrogation, self exploration, and also understanding more of the context about why this stuff is happening now and what we can do you because I often think people feel like ending racism is this big thing that is too overwhelming.

Actually there are tiny things we can do on every day that don’t have to be confrontational, that can be really really helpful and healing and strategic if we just have a desire.

So it’s an online anti-racism course, and I’ve just launched a courageous courage, which is for people who are starting their journeys being an ally but feel really uncomfortable about having conversations, calling people in, having conversations with family and so it’s figuring out how to do that without triggering some kind of anxiety attack, so that you can be effective in your allyship as well because it does take courage this work, absolutely takes courage. Yes.

Chloe: I think that’s so relevant for myself and probably people listening. A lot of people that do listen to this who are kind of people pleasers and are scared of… so scared of saying the wrong thing, but also want to help but would let that fear hold them back and I think knowing, you know educating yourself is it’s kind of the 1st step in listening.

Nova Reid: It’s key, and I know fear feels huge and it can feel like it’s all consuming. But your fear is not bigger than being a part of the solution to end racism and trauma.

It’s temporary, it will dissipate and the more you do this the more you understand the easier it becomes, because when you come up with a challenge, you have the data, you have the stats you have the facts, and that can back up all humans and then it feels less like a confrontation and more like a conversation and for me that’s where change happens where you’re not blaming or attacking anyone for their views you’re just helping them why did their understanding which generally changes their behavior.

How to reach Nova

Chloe: And yeah just to reiterate that people should watch your ted talk. It’s really moving and inspiring. Your course is really interesting, and lots of videos where you’re talking about the history, case studies and experiences. It really gives you this kind of an understanding of the whole situation I guess and how we can start to change things.

Nova Reid: Thank you, and thank you for being part of it as well because that in itself takes courage. So I knowledge that, yeah, we need more allies.

Chloe: And in your Instagram is that your name?

Nova Reid: Yes, my Instagram is Nova Reid official R-E-I-D, and I’m mostly on there. My website is novareid.com as well to see a full range of some of the services I offer.

Chloe: Amazing, thank you so much for speaking to me, and thanks for everything that you do.

Nova Reid: A pleasure, thank you for having me.


Thank you so much for listening, I really hope that you gained a lot from this episode. Come on over to Instagram and let me know what are you taking from this episode, find me at Chloebrotheridge, and I would love it if you would leave me a review in the podcast app or on i-Tune, subscribe to the podcast, leave me a rating.

And is there someone in your life that will benefit from this podcast, you can let them know by sharing this podcast, I’ll be so so grateful. so I’m just wishing you a wonderful week ahead, sending you loads of love, hopefully you’ll tune in again, and I’ll see you soon.

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