Anxious about working from home? Partner driving you to despair because you’re together 24/7? In this episode of The Calmer You Podcast I chat with journalist and Shelf Help Bookclub founder Toni Jones about how to handle coronanxiety and thrive at home in a time of Covid-19.
- WFH tips for introverts and extroverts
- How to still be social (but also not overwhelm yourself with video calls and WhatsApp messages)
- The importance of routine
- Working at home with your partner or kids
- WFH tips for introverts and extroverts
- How to still be social (but also not overwhelm yourself with video calls and WhatsApp messages)
Hello and welcome to the Calmer You Podcast. This is your host, Chloe Brotheridge. I’m a coach, a hypnotherapist, and I’m the author of The Anxiety Solution and Brave New Girl. And this podcast is all about helping you to become your calmest, happiest and most confident self.
Chloe Brotheridge: Thank you so much for listening today. Obviously, I’m so aware of what an anxious time this is for so many of you. I’ve been having tons of messages and questions coming through about how to deal with the uncertainty about coronavirus and all the things that we have to deal with from redundancy is to not be able to leave the house to lack of social interaction to fear about our health and the health of our loved ones. There are so many things to consider right now.
And so, what I normally do is record podcasts quite a few weeks in advance and I’ve decided to push back the ones I had scheduled and actually have in place some podcasts that are dealing with the issues that we’re struggling with today.
So, obviously, I know what an anxious time they says and I’m going to be planning some online workshops to help you to feel more resilient and feel more positive in what is, for many people, a really challenging time.
If you want to hear about that and also download some of the freebies I have on my website, you can go to calmer-you.com/free. I’ve got hypnotherapy mp3 on there, affirmations, worksheets; all designed to help me to be a calmer you. And I’ll also let you know about any events or live workshops I’m doing online.
So, I am chatting on the podcast today to my friend, Toni Jones. She was a guest, maybe a year ago now, on the podcast. She’s the founder of the self-help book club, Shelf Help. And I definitely recommend you check them out. There’s tons for you to get involved in. Even though the in-person meetups aren’t happening for now, she’s doing loads of stuffs online. Definitely check out Shelf Help Club on Facebook and on her website and on Instagram.
I got in touch with Toni because she’d written a fascinating blog post, all about working from home and the challenges that can come up for us when it comes to working from home; from being productive to spending more time with our partners, which can sometimes be quite challenging, though (I’ll tell you from my own experience), to handling the uncertainties and sticking with the routine.
Working from home (WFH)
So, we talk about all these different factors; how to stay calm, how to handle working from home, being at home a lot and making the best of this challenging situation. So, let’s get into the interview with Toni Jones from Shelf Help Club.
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Chloe: Welcome, Toni. Thanks so much for joining me. How are you today?
Shelf Help Founder Toni Jones
Toni Jones: I’m actually really good. I’m very busy; believe it or not. I should be slowing down, maybe. As I might have mentioned on Instagram a few times, I seem to have lost most of my normal work, but it’s okay because I’m kind of being super productive and actually just getting busy creating content and just doing stuff I actually love, which is really interesting. So, I’m enjoying today. I’m busy. Yeah.
Toni: That’s good. That’s good to hear. I’m really curious to know, as someone that I consider quite a sociable person, we obviously know each other outside of work and hang out. And I know you to be someone that is often out and about, doing things, meeting people. How’s it been for you as such a social person to sort of handle things at the moment?
Toni Jones: Well, I’m still being super sociable, actually, just in new ways. I’ve been retesting things. Something I’m calling hurdles for myself and the Shelf Help community, which is bringing different people together.
A lot of my hosts and community members have been helping me test that. So, every day, I’ve had at least two meetings with eight other people, smiley faces, most of whom also don’t really know about how the technology works. So, it’s actually been really funny and brilliant and that’s been a really nice kind of way to check in with people.
I’ve also been doing the same with my family, which has been like chaotic, which is basically like the same kind of chaos as a normal family party at mine.
So, I think at the moment it’s all quite novelty. So, I feel very in touch with everyone. I’ve got too many WhatsApp groups going on. So, I’ve muted a few of those, which we might talk about later, just because they’re so rich; so many different inputs.
Yeah, I still feel very connected to lots of people; I’m making a real effort to do that. So, I’m not feeling the bite of the kind of social distancing just yet. I feel physically distant, obviously, but socially distant, no.
Chloe: Okay. It’s so interesting to hear different people’s experiences and how people are coping with the challenges that are taking place at the moment.
One of the reasons that I wanted to speak to you was because I read a blog post that you’d written that seemed to get shared a lot and have a massive response; all about working from home. Can you share a little bit about that post and why you decided to write it?
Getting used to working from home
Toni Jones: Yeah. Well, originally, I decided to write it because I, like you said, I work from home already (I think you said that; sorry). I work from home already for myself, but it’s take me a while to kind of get used to it. Probably about five years. Because I used to work as journalist for 15 years on news floors, which is completely the opposite. It’s kind of like super hectic, filled with people, pressure all day, every day, people shouting at you, which I think I kind of liked.
So, working from home for me was a real learning curve; learning about myself, learning about how to plan your day, your time, how to prioritize, how to be responsible for yourself and motivate yourself.
And I just, as soon as people just don’t get sent home by their companies, I was getting lots of messages from friends saying, “How you do this?” It was like two or three days in and they were just like they were not enjoying it.
How to work from home
So, I just thought, “What I might do is just do a piece on how I do it.” And I did a shout out and I got so many responses back from my community and also friends and colleagues that everyone has got a different method and different things work for different people, but now we’re all in this together. I just thought it be interesting to write a piece.
But I feel like the piece needs to be updated already and it is only a few days old. Because I wrote it, how to work from home, from a position of someone is choosing to work from home and is able to change my environment when and if I want, and also working from home by myself.
Working from home with a family
And now, obviously, as things are evolving and moving so quickly, a lot of people are working from home with families or with partners, and they’re not able, at the end of the day, to just shake off and go to the gym class or go meet their friends at a restaurant.
So, I think a lot of the strategies that I use, or maybe you and your listeners, for working from home now are going to have to be adapted a little bit. So, I think the response I’m getting now is, “Yeah, great. We love the piece, but how do I do that with the husband and kids?”
So, yeah, I found those good resources actually, which I’ll share as we go through. But yeah, it was a really interesting. I enjoyed writing the piece and I learned a lot. I learned so much from people and I also realized I don’t always take my own advice.
Sticking to a routine
So, I think I said to you earlier, “I didn’t realize it was Friday at the moment” because I am sticking to my routine, as in, getting up at the right time and do my work out stuff like that. But yeah, not watching the news so much and kind of keeping myself out of that. So, maybe I need to follow my own advice a bit more.
Chloe: I think we’re all like that; all good at giving advice and then we don’t always take it on ourselves. I think that’s totally normal.
One thing I was really curious to discuss today was how being at home a lot is going to affect introverts and also extroverts. Because when I think about it, I can think there could be benefits and drawbacks to both of these types of people. And I know that probably a lot of people listening are probably — Well, on unofficial polls I’ve done on my Instagram on my followers, the majority of people seem to be introverts and that seems to be associated with anxiety.
Do you have any theories on how this will affect these two types of people, in terms of being at home a lot and working from home?
Introverts – WFH
Toni Jones: Yeah, sure. It’s the same actually with the Shelf Help community. I would say not all are a lot of introverts. So, having time to kind of meet people, connect online and ask them how they felt about meeting digitally and all that kind of stuff has been really interesting.
I think some things that have come up for introverts is you can have too much me-time; like this is like it’s kind of enforced me-time, enforced mindfulness, which we can see it as a positive.
But unless, I think, if you’re an introvert, you still have to go to work most the time or you’ll still see your friends in some capacity. But now you’re going to really have to make an effort to consciously do that.
So, I’d say don’t go for too much me-time. Enjoy it, but don’t have too much. And equally, don’t say yes to too much. And this is just kind of like practicing getting used to being online. Some people I’ve spoken to who work online all day are now kind of on video calls all day. And then they say yes to all their kind of social things that their friends are planning and they feel just totally wiped out by the end of it, because it’s just so much input and output.
Getting used to technology
Because you’re on video camera every single day in meetings, but then also you’re on the WhatsApp and you’re kind of then agreeing to social hang out and all that kind of stuff.
So, be aware that that is still energy giving out. And for some of us, it’s more energy because we’re not used to the technology; we don’t really know necessarily how it’s going to go.
So, I think, like you would be in the kind of regular life, kind of be careful about where your energy goes and plan that.
Extroverts – WFH
With regards to the extroverts, then I would just say social media, use social media in a good way. That’s what it’s for, right? Social media was designed to connect us when we can’t be physically connected. So, there’s so many great things happening now. Lots of live stuff on Instagram, loads of course people are joining, lots of friends.
I’ve got a friend who works in events and they’ve created a VR pub that they all going to go to tonight. So, I think there are ways to kind of stay social and not be physically connected. Yeah, the classes, I’m kind of loving, but I would remember that not everyone’s feeling the same as you. So, I know as, an extrovert, when I’m excited about something, I want everyone to be excited about it. And when you’re in the same room as people, you can see body language and you can read cues more. But sometimes, I think virtually, we don’t have that.
I also interviewed somebody called Dr. Tara Swartz recently. And she’s a neuroscientist. And she was talking to me about being very aware that we’re going to go through a curve. It’s almost like a grief curve, when you lose something or when something massive changes in your life. We all go through this curve and we’ll go through it in different stages.
So, over the next few weeks, we’re all going to be feeling like we need some quiet or we’re feeling sad or we’ll be feeling scared or nervous at different times. And so, for extroverts, and I include myself in that, to remember that the people around us might be going through different things at different times. And so, to be to be aware of that.
Chloe: That’s so interesting. Yeah, I’m thinking a lot about that, how I know that with my friends and with yourself, we’ve been co-working on Zoom and everyone’s been connecting on WhatsApp and checking on each other. And I just wonder if that will start to wane in the coming weeks and whether people will, particularly introverts, feel themselves starting to retreat more or that the isolation will start to kick in.
So, I think it’s good to be aware that those things can change and to maybe, if you know yourself to be someone who can withdraw, to try to make plans or try to, I don’t know, maybe it’s even about letting other people know, like your friends know, “I have this tendency to withdraw and go inside myself. Can you just check on me or can we keep this going; this regular contact going?” I think is good to have those sorts of conversations.
Toni Jones: Yeah. And I think regular is a really good word here because we can talk about routine, daily routines, and we will, I’m sure. But if you, just the knowledge that you’ve got; a regular Friday lunchtime check in, for instance, or Friday night. And then, if you’ve heard the term quarantine is being kind of bandied around and it’s just friends all meeting at the same time; like bring your own, right?
It doesn’t need to be booze related, but it’s just like it’s that kind of social. So, every Friday night, if this is kind of we’re going to be in this situation for this foreseeable, then you check-in with your friends.
And the beauty of the virtual check-in is that you don’t need to be there for hours and hours; it is just a check-in. And sometimes, it’s like a virtual hug; you just need to know that there are people out there that are interested in you and care about you.
And you don’t necessarily need to kind of go deep, dive into your problems or challenges. But I think sometimes, yeah, just having that regular plan in the diary is enough to keep most of us kind of going, even before the events happened. Just knowing it’s there is quite motivating, quite uplifting. So, for introverts, especially, I would book that in and ask your friends to book that in.
Chloe: Definitely. I just remembered that I found out the other day that there’s a Netflix setting, I can’t know what it’s called, that allows you to connect with your friends on Netflix and watch a program together and chat about it in a chat box. And I’m disgusted we didn’t have this when we were watching Love is Blind because that would have been brilliant. So, that’s my top tip for anyone.
Toni Jones: That would have been all like over.
Routine is really important
Chloe: Yeah. We touched on the topic of routine. And now, when I obviously speak to people with anxiety all day, every day, the topic of routine comes up a lot as being so important for helping us to be balanced in our mental health. And of course, now things have gotten changed and shaken up and where maybe going to be outside of our normal routines.
What sort of advice or insights do you have about being at home and sticking to a routine? And what have you learned about that in the last couple of weeks?
Toni Jones: So, I would say routine is now more important than ever because there’s so much we can’t control at the moment and this feels a lot of chaos and kind of things are changing all the time. So, what we can control is our days or mornings, kind of how we choose to spend our time and our energy. So, I think routine now; more important than ever.
Make your bed
I’ve been recommending a book called Make Your Bed, and it’s by an admiral from the Navy SEALs, who was in the SEALs for, I think, 37 years. And he’s written a book and it’s 10 Rules for Life.
The first one is Make Your Bed. And it sounds super simple. But the idea is that by doing that, you’ve achieved something in the day; kind of you set yourself a task and you’ve done it. So, moving forward, you feel a little bit accomplished and a little bit of pride. Also, it’s a reminder that the small things matter are now more than ever, the small things do matter.
And if we are going to be housebound (Some people might already be) if we’re listening in different countries. If you’re housebound, it’s really important to make that bed because your environment really dictates, for me and for loads of people I know this, your environment will really dictate your mental well-being. So, having a tidy, smart environment is really important.
So, yeah, more important than ever, I think. I mean the morning routine has always been important to me since I started working from home. So, now I’m just in treating myself to an extended morning routine.
I used to dream about, imagine having a whole hour and a half to do whatever I wanted in the morning. Now I kind of can, because it’s the time that I used to spend going to meetings maybe or prepping for different things aren’t happening now. So, yeah, I’m kind of enjoying that.
But I think my advice here is to zone things. So, we can try to zone our days and our evenings and our weekends. I shall talk about it in a minute. And to zone the house. So, to physically zone different spaces for different things. And also, to his own duties. And this is especially important for people trying to work from home with kids, husband, flatmates, other people, basically.
Because like I said, the original piece I wrote was about me working from home, just considering myself. But actually, it’s turned into a doing everything from home.
So, I think the zones are really important. And I feel like the routines, it’s great to have kind of treat it like a school day, almost. But for me, what’s going to be really important, as you said, as quite a sociable person, and as someone who really, like really looks — you said look for — Well, I still do — really looks forward to Fridays and the weekends, it’s like, “How are we going to make these blocks of the day different?”
Because we’re all now talking on Zoom, on video conferencing; we’re doing all day for work. So, if we’re doing that for our social life as well, how are we going to make little changes to make that a bit more — turn into fun or turn into the evening?
You’ve got the morning routine, what’s your end of day routine, to say, “Work is now over and I’m going to kind of move into the evening. To some people, it’s kind of just putting your laptop away and hiding it and doing a kind of, “Today is now finished” and kind of saying out loud.
For some people, it’s washing their face, changing their clothes, having a shower, doing a workout, going for a walk, while you still can; maybe that’s what you check in with your friends.
So, I think, yeah, zoning the day and the week and the weekend like that is really important. And that obviously goes back to routine.
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Chloe: I think that’s such an important one about having an end to the working day. Because I know myself that it can just be constant. Unless I have boundaries in place or some kind of plan or routine, I’ll just be answering e-mails at 9:00 PM, sat on the sofa or work encroaching on the weekend.
And I think especially at this time in the world when we need to look after our mental health more than ever, having a process of switching off and bookending the day with something to help me to calm down or relax. So, I love the idea of taking your makeup off or getting change, having a shower, just to be able to get into that relaxation mode and switch off from the day, I think is so, so important.
Toni Jones: Yeah, totally. I mean, I think FOMO is the only thing that stopped me working sometimes because there was something happening and I was like, “I can’t miss that. So, I’m going to get off the laptop” or as you said, planned a class, I go to frame studios and I’d be like, “I planned the class every lunchtime, because otherwise, I just work through lunch.”
It’s what I did when I worked at a company. Because we were churning out content the whole time, so I got quite used to just head down and get on with it and not having lunch breaks and things. So, it’s bad training from that, but it’s also, if we’re going to be at home a lot, we need to be really extra strict with ourselves on those boundaries.
So, yeah, I mentioned like zoning the house. I’ve seen some funny memes going around about like, “Getting ready to go to the living room tonight. Because it’s like the living room now going to be the place that we kind of like have dinner and drinks and like that’s our social place.”
But it’s like I think it’s quite important, especially if you’re working from home with somebody, like where’s your office space, where’s your desk space, where is the other person’s space?
I have a bad habit. You know, probably this about co-working, but my husband has now realized that I do this a lot. When someone sitting next to me, I just ask them questions all the time; I want to talk to them. And it can be about work, but it’s just anything that comes up. I will just ask. So, Dan now puts his headphones in and that’s a signal for me that he doesn’t want to talk or that he’s trying to work or he’ll let you go in the other room.
So, it’s kind of looking at it space you’ve got and working out how is that best going to work for you and the people in the home? Maybe we’ll talk about families in a minute.
But if you are trying to work from home with kids, it’s like it’s really important for you to almost be out of sight when you’re not on kind of daddy or mommy day-care, because that is your work zone and then this is kid zone. I think that needs to be figured out. So, just kind of some planning around that is probably really useful for people.
WFH with a partner or family
Chloe: I think it’d be good to look about that a bit more. I heard that in China, following all the coronavirus outbreaks and people being confined to their homes, the rates of divorce went up quite significantly because most of us are used to, I mean, even though I work at home, my partner, three days a week was going into an office and he work from home a couple of days a week and we got used to that rhythm. But now, we’re together 24/7, literally 24/7.
And I’m sure everyone who has a partner is probably in a similar position. And that’s a completely new experience. If you’re used to having your own time, your own space, or obviously the kids going to school or nursery, then that’s a massive change, isn’t it?
Toni Jones: Yeah, totally. So, it’s the C-word. It’s compromise, which mostly we’re not generally so good at; all of us. So, it’s basically working out everyone’s needs in this situation, because we’re all going to be at home, working from home; whether that’s doing your schoolwork or as an adult or whatever.
I’m not a parent, but I’ve got lots of nieces and nephews and I’m Aunty Toni to a lot of people. So, I asked a really broad mix and I got two really funny responses to this about how you work from home with kids and a family. And the people who have never done it before said, “Earplugs, wine and a knife for the husband” and the people who were doing it for a while were like, “Routine, shifts.” Shifts is the most important.
Again, so it’s like zoning the time. It’s like you have to decide, at the beginning of the day, who’s going to be in charge, when; who’s going to be looking after the kids and who’s going to be able to do some work.
Because then when there’s a kid meltdown, it has to be the person who’s designated in charge, because otherwise, it usually reverts back to the kind of main caregiver or the person who spends most of time with the kids. But now it’s all it’s all changing; the boundaries are kind of shifting a lot. So, it’s important to kind of get them in place at the beginning, I think.
The people who do it well, as well, working from home with children, say, “Do something at beginning of the day that involves a lot of energy.” So, I think Joe Wicks, The Body Coach, is doing a PE class at 9 o’clock every day from next Monday. So, Barry’s Boot Camp, some people have been doing it with their babies, which I think is brilliant, online.
So, it’s just anything that again kind of is good for us because it’s like grownups; it’s going to get your energy going, but it kind of starts the, kids kind of like are not then just fizzing all day, wanting your attention.
So, it’s yeah, kind of looking at that they have needs too; we all do. So, it’s compromising and it’s working out what’s the best way we can all do it and the most fair way.
So, I think the way to do that is, sounds a bit boring, but doing a bit of planning, working out. Some days, I now need to be recording content at home all day. So, my husband’s going to have to find something else to do and vice versa. So, it’s kind of working out the diary in advance and then, yeah, blocking out those times.
And also, I asked my husband about his feedback on this and he said, “We should need to finish the day at the same time, otherwise, it’s silly.” Because it’s like even if someone’s making dinner while someone’s working, if at all possible, if you can both say, “At 6 o’clock, our work day is done.”
And then whatever you do, like we decided we’re going to start looking at recipe books and start cooking properly tonight because it’s Friday date night. So, I’m actually going to shave my legs and get ready for dinner. We’re going to have a drink and have dinner and then go clubbing in the lounge.
So, we kind of like, again, like it’s still novelty. So, ask me next Friday, it might be a bit different. But I think, yeah, that sounds like the zoning of the day is the zoning of the duties, zoning of your kind of space, all important.
Strategies for working together during Covid
Chloe: That’s so, so helpful. And I know, just from my own experience with Aden, on our number one argument is when one of us is working, the other one is wanting to chat and connect, maybe at the end of the day or cooking dinner and wants someone to chat to. And we’ll get into stupid arguments about one person not being present because they’re working. Because I literally work on the kitchen table and I’ll never see he’s there the whole time. And it’s just that scope.
And I think that’s such a good point about having that time to switch off or maybe if I’m really focusing or he is, to have headphones in or we’ve been saying to each other, “You know what? I’m having an hour of power now. Please don’t interrupt me for the next hour” or somebody focusing on this. Or if you’ve got different rooms in the house, maybe going and sitting in different rooms.
Toni Jones: Yeah.
Chloe: But yeah, I think that’s something that we all need to be mindful of that divorce rates don’t go up in the next few weeks because we can’t get home at home.
Toni Jones: Now, I’ve got to say I love the power hour and I love the kind of, “I’m going to be doing this now.” Brené Brown, she did a podcast with Tim Feris and they were talking about parenting. And she’s quite a mindful parent. I mean, I’m not a parent, but I just love listening to how she brings up her kids.
And she talks about people say marriage is a 50/50 or partnerships. And she said, “They’re not at all hardly ever 50/50. It’s usually 80/20, 70/ 30, 60/ 40. And then, her and her husband have a conversation where they’ll say, “How you doing today?” and one of them would say, “I’m at 20.” So, the other person needs to bring it up to 80. And they have that conversation and that understanding that, “Okay, fine.”
So, like maybe with our busyness levels or maybe with our work levels, if you were kind of saying to Aden or if you’re saying, even to your flatmates or whatever, kind of, “This is what’s going on for me right now. I need this kind of level of space” and so they know they no need to tone it down a bit.
So, quite like that. It’s kind of like, again, the compromising, but it’s having that chat at the beginning, rather than just passively, aggressively typing really loud like I like to do, or Dan put his headphones in with a dramatic flourish.
So, it’s kind of like, “Yeah, you know that I need to work for a few hours now” and then I will give you time. And like you said, be present, because we do want that. But now, it’s going to be very important that we don’t let everything just bleed into everything.
Chloe: Yeah, totally. And I love the idea of, it sounds like to me, almost asking what you need, asking for support, letting your partner know if you’re having a difficult time with things and you’re then pick up some of the slack or you’re noticing if they’re struggling and you need to be the one that’s going to be taking over for a little bit and having those conversations about that, sounds really important.
I would really love to know — we’re going to need to wrap up this conversation up in a minute, but I’d love to know from you whether any other — I know you spoke to your community, the Shelf Helpers, about their tips and advice. Is there anything else that they mentioned or that came out of that that you found interesting?
Toni Jones: Yeah. It was just taking advantage of all the resources that are out there, really. Because whether you’re introvert or extrovert or however you normally run your days, suddenly, people just sharing so much online.
So, everyone I speak to really seems kind of like recommending things like a resource for — it’s almost like a directory of live events. Because everything I do with Shelf Help is about bringing people together. So, the challenge for me is how do I do that online?
But suddenly, like I said, Joe Wicks, doing his PE class, all the studios in London are kind of doing online classes. And I think the community are really enjoying trying all different things as well. Because you’re kind of anonymous in these classes. So, it’s a good time to try things that you might never have tried and then not worry if you don’t get it quite right.
Live online yoga
So, I’m loving live classes because it also makes me actually go to them. Because I’ve always had like online yoga. But it’s I on-demand. Whereas now, I’ve got a favourite yoga teacher, Josephine McGreal, and she’s doing a 7:30 class every day. So, every morning, I do a bit of my morning routine, but at 7:30, I’m on the mat. And it’s so nice to see that some of my other friends names kind of pop into the chat box.
So, what’s happening with my community is that people are sharing a lot of resources like that. So, that we feel like we’re kind of socializing together, but not necessarily just in a hang out when we’ve been online all day already. But we’re socializing, as in, we’re enjoying the same experience and then we’re able to share about it.
Chloe: That’s such a good thing to access. I’m thinking about how it makes it more accessible. So, people that aren’t in London could access a yoga class that maybe they couldn’t in their local area or it’s a bit more affordable, I think, quite often, the yoga classes or the fitness classes or workshops than actually going somewhere. You don’t have to pay for travel. So, it makes it more accessible.
So, there are definitely some interesting or kind of beneficial things to deal with the crisis that we’re experiencing right now. And I’m just trying to focus on the positive things that we can get out of it and how to make the best of what is a bad situation. So, I love that.
Embracing a new way of connection
Toni Jones: Yeah. But definitely, there are all those aspects of it; people are really coming together in different ways. Like on our huddles, I’ve been talking to people in LA, in Scotland, in Paris, and we’re all on this and cool. And it’s like, “How amazing is that? We’re all hanging out talking about the same stuff”, which we probably could’ve done anyway, but we haven’t yet. So, it’s forcing us to embrace this way of connecting.
Chloe: Amazing. Thank you so much for talking to me. This has been really, really helpful. Where can people find out more about you and the things that you offer and what you’re up to?
How to connect with Toni
Toni Jones: Well, I would love you to come and see us at the shelfhelp.club, which is the website. But at the moment, I’m doing lots of online content through Instagram and also sharing on Facebook, but mostly Instagram, which is selfhelp.club.
So, I’m doing a live reading every morning of a book that I think is good to help keep us kind of grounded and present and positive. And then I’m also doing a kind of, I call it the Keep Calm and Stay Well Series, where I’m interviewing lovely experts like yourself, Chloe, clever experts about kind of how we can best manage these times coming up. So, that’s an evening. So, yeah, loads of online content there.
Chloe: Amazing. Thank you so much for this. It’s been so good.
Toni Jones: Thank you. Nice to see you. See you soon.
Chloe: You too.
Thank you so much for listening. I really hope that you gained a lot from this episode. Come on over to Instagram and let me know what are you taking from this episode. Find me @chloebrotheridge.
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