We can all learn a lot about self-kindness from Shahroo Izadi. Shahroo is an author of The Kindness Method and The Last Diet. She offers simple motivational tools designed to help create new habits.
We chat about:
- An amazing technique for shifting your attention from what your body looks like to what it allows you to do
- The links between how we eat and anxiety
- Shahroo shares about how she handles anxiety and takes care of her mental health
- Why we find it so hard to be kind to ourselves and how we can remember to do it
If you would like free resources to help you to feel calmer and self-assured – visit calmer-you.com/confidence .
You can also find out about my app and my 121 sessions of hypnotherapy and coaching at www.calmer-you.com.
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Chloe Brotheridge Hello, and welcome to the Calmer You Podcast. This is your host, Chloe Brotheridge. I’m a coach, a hypnotherapist, and I’m the author of the Anxiety Solution and Brave New Girl.
In today’s podcast
This podcast is all about helping you to become your calmest, happiest and most confident self. So today I have the pleasure and privilege of sharing with you this conversation that I had with Shahroo Izadi.
Shahroo was on my podcast about a year and a half ago and following that podcast we struck up a beautiful friendship and now we’re really quite good friends. We recorded this unfortunately not in person since we are in lockdown
Shahroo is all about self-kindness and is the author of The Kindness Method. Her latest book is called The Last Diet. She shares with us an amazing technique for shifting your attention from what your body looks like to what it allows you to do. We talked about the links between anxiety and how we eat. Also, she shares about how she handles anxiety and how she takes care of her own mental health.
We get into this topic which I quite often ask people: Why is it that we find it so hard to be kind to ourselves, and Shahroo is literally the queen of kindness and self-kindness.
If you would like to be a calmer, happier and more confident person, I have a lot of free resources for you. I’d love to share these with you to help you to feel more in control and to take another step towards being your calmest self.
If you want to get those freebies, you can head over to my website, Calmer-you.com/free and enter your email address. I will send you all of those goodies straight into your inbox.
You can also find out about my app and my one on one sessions of hypnotherapy and coaching at calmer-you.com
Chloe Brotheridge You are one of the only guests to be on this podcast twice. I’m very excited to talk to you. The first time we spoke and met was for this podcast a couple of years ago.
We first met online, then at a dinner and the rest is history. Now we are friends IRL.
Chloe Brotheridge: Can you can you tell everyone your story, what it is that you do and how you got to where you are today?
Shahroo: I’m a behavioural change specialist. So I help people to change their habits, unwanted habits, learn self-kindness and help them gain insight into why they’re finding it hard to change habits.
I write books, self-help, self-kindess and offer tools so that people can change their own habits without needing to talk to people like me. Before this I worked in addiction. I learned so much about motivation, self-awareness, resilience and self-compassion. And many other themes that help people enormously when it comes to changing habits and making those changes last.
Now what I do really is adapt tools and approaches that help addicts stay in long term recovery. I also find ways for people to integrate those approaches into their daily lives so that they can better manage their own habits and experience self-kindness.
Chloe Brotheridge: For people that don’t know, Shahroo’s books are called The Kindness Method and The Last Diet.
Shahroo: Professionally a lot has changed a lot for me. When my first book came out, I was sort of wondering what I even did before that to be perfectly honest with you. I had a private practice where I was seeing clients, learning from their feedback what was working and people found useful. The first book is now out all around the world and the second one about kindness and self-kindness just came out in the states. So that’s very exciting.
The Kindness Method
The Kindness Method did so well. It resonated with so many people. I think because not being kind to ourselves is so prevalent. It’s hard to find anyone who is genuinely kind to themselves. I think all of us have this tendency to beat ourselves up or, you know, be overly self-critical. Do you know why we are so hard on ourselves? What your take on it?
Shahroo: Well, I know you know, from work on anxiety, etc, that we are more highly attuned to our deficits and the things we should be protecting ourselves from and our threats. But I think when it comes to my work in particular, it comes down to the definition of kindness and self-kindness.
If you’re trying to define self-kindness, define it as doing for yourself as you would for a loved one. It doesn’t mean making the decision that gives you a short term fix. It means making the more difficult decision that has your long term goals in mind, as opposed to your short term relief.
It involves taking the same sort of common sense, sensible advice that you would give someone else. Also, not treating a blip as a catastrophe. So in the context of habit change, it’s understandable that people would find it hard to change their habits because frankly, self-kindness is the harder choice sometimes.
Self-kindness needs self reminders
Chloe Brotheridge: I found talking to people, that self-kindness is something that we need constant reminders about. I tell people to be kind to themselves a lot. And I still need to remind myself as well. It’s something that I tend to keep coming back to. It’s not necessarily that we just think it once and it’s it sticks. We need to keep reinforcing it. How do you remember to be kind to yourself
Shahroo: If I’m experiencing some emotional discomfort, even if it’s just procrastinating or boredom or whatever else, I try and notice that and practice speaking to myself the way I would speak to a loved one. That’s usually in an encouraging way. And usually that means that I uncover the kind of advice that helps make that process easier for myself.
When you feel discomfort
I find discomfort is one thing that really turns up the volume on the way that I’m speaking to myself and I can get some insight into whether it’s helpful or not. Am I practicing self-kindness?Where possible, I try to give myself the same messages that I want other others to give me. I often ask myself what are you hoping they’re going to say to you? Usually the messages are things like this isn’t that big a deal? This is okay. You’re going to be okay. Don’t beat yourself up about it. When I am in discomfort it’s an opportunity to speak more kindly to myself.
Chloe Brotheridge: When you talk about discomfort, can you describe what you mean by that? Are you talking about a specific kind of feeling?
Shahroo: Yeah, any kind of state we’re trying to change. At the moment, I’d say a lot of us are feeling bored, stressed, anxious, worried. That’s a good opportunity to listen in on the way you’re speaking to yourself and look at how you might be able to debate with it and make what you’re hearing more useful, and considering self-kindness.
Chloe Brotheridge: I don’t know if this is the same in addictions or this is just the same for everyone but feeling uncomfortable, trying to find a way to make yourself feel better. The thing that makes you feel better might not be the healthiest choice. The next time you feel uncomfortable, you don’t want to feel that feeling. In those moments of discomfort, should we just practice self-kindness? Thinking about what our friend might say to us to support us or encourage us in that moment.
Shahroo: And just being curious about it, as opposed to beating yourself up about it. A lot of the time, people come to me in my work, especially when it comes to things like comfort eating. The ask me why I continue to do something if it doesn’t even make me feel better. I think if we replace the word better with different it can help us to gain a little bit more insight into the state that we’re trying to change. It helps to frame a new habit as a solution, not a problem. When you understand that it’s solving a problem in itself, you can start to have more compassion for yourself. Then gain a little bit more insight into why you’re finding it so difficult to change.
Chloe Brotheridge: For example, If I am feeling anxious I might eat a whole tray of brownies. That’s the solution that you found in that moment. So it’s about finding another solution to help yourself with those anxious feelings.
Shahroo: Yes, focus on diversifying your coping strategies, not just telling yourself about them and saying no brownies ever. How about we find five other things that do the job that brownies do and we practice doing them as well throughout the week? How do I not have brownies in sight? Because they’re the problem. They’re not the problem. They’re the solution.
Chloe Brotheridge: That’s such a different way of thinking about and makes so much sense.
Can you tell us a bit about your latest book, The Last Diet?
The Last Diet
Shahroo: The Last Diet is much like The Kindness Method. It hands over tools. You can do written exercises by yourself and try and gain some insights. But this one’s specifically about eating habits, and much more personal. In the first book, I do talk about my personal experience, but I largely draw from my work in addiction treatment.
In the second book, I talk about my upbringing. I developed this all or nothing dieting mentality around food. A very mean, unfair and unkind dialogue about myself and my body. I associated self-worth and my weight and how I came to unlearn so many of these things.
Through the exercises, again, that I learned through addiction treatment. It was also informed by the feedback I’ve had from the first book. The things that really resonated with people, especially when it came to changing their eating habits. The second one really is about saying no more diets, essentially.
We are all on a diet
A lot of us who are used to being on diets from a young age for a range of different reasons, never find a way of eating that helps us manage our weight. The word diet gets a bad rap, but frankly, we’re all on a diet.
It’s just some of them are designed to help you lose weight, but we’re all eating. I think a lot of people think it would be helpful to sit down and really plan how they like to eat on purpose. My main focus in the book is making sure that the way that people go about weight management is realistic. It’s about practising self-kindness and what you’re going to do to keep off weight as opposed to focus on weight loss.
Take the focus off weight loss
Many people I speak to are so focused on weight loss. And for me, it wasn’t actually until I took the focus off the weight loss process and put the focus on managing my weight long term in a way that made me feel strong and positive and calm, that actually any unwanted weight naturally came off.
Chloe Brotheridge: Can you explain what the distinction between that’s more long term rather than a quick fix?
Shahroo: It has your whole life in mind. It would be impossible for a human to carry on doing certain forms of diets over the long-term. People should feel empowered around food and actually enjoy it.
Focus on weight management
We’re so used to this quick fix fast results going on holiday getting married kind of view of weight loss. Bear in mind, my unwanted weight gain was due largely to binge eating, restricting and abusing myself with food. You know what I have to admit, I need to get better at remembering that the people I speak to already have a very specific problem with this very specific thing. Because sometimes I’ll do some press or an article or something, I’ll see the feedback. There’s so many people out there who don’t struggle with these habits in this way and never have.
My story has been about abusing myself with food and not understanding why I have an abusive relationship with food, and then not liking the byproduct of that abuse. The by-product is unwanted weight. So that particular formula is one that most people I speak to completely relate to.
Think about the incredible things your body can do
I think that there are times when we’re trying to make changes, whether it’s trying to deal with a craving in a way that we’re happy with or trying to do anything difficult, where we forget how capable we are. In that moment, a lot of us have grown used to putting ourselves down and remembering all the things we can’t do and all the things we haven’t managed to do. I think it’s really helpful to write down in one place all the incredible things that your body is capable of doing.
Don’t think I can’t do this, or I can’t do that. That can be a very powerful tool when we want to push through a craving or an urge and treat it as an alert from our bodies as opposed to a command that we need to follow.
Chloe Brotheridge: Yeah, because I guess we’re so focused in our society on the way we look. And we lose that appreciation for the things that our bodies can do and the amazing things that our bodies are doing day and night. It’s refreshing, positive and empowering way of thinking about it.
It’s not all or nothing
Shahroo: Thank you, I think a lot of people had the experience I’ve had. That all or nothing thinking around food also came in all or nothing thinking around self-care and self-kindness. I used to think when I’m a certain size, then I’ll be the sort of person who cares about that stretching, or buying a new outfit or having a blow-out for my hair.
Chloe Brotheridge: I really hope people will give that a try and put that into practice. Can we talk about the link between anxiety and food? There’s that famous meme of food being the most prevalent anti-anxiety medication or something?
Anxiety and food
I know for me, certainly as a teenager in my early 20s, I definitely used foods, carbohydrates, in particular, to try and make myself feel calmer and more grounded and more comforted. What would you say the link is there for people?
I think comfort eating does help in the short term. It can help a lot of people to soothe anxiety or stress. For example, initially they may think it’s completely harmless and that they will never have a problem with comfort eating. That’s fine. It’s in their toolkit, along with meditation and lots of other things. And when you take the judgment out of the tools in your toolkit, it’s just one of those coping strategies.
Afterwards, having eaten whatever they’ve wanted did they feel better or worse over time?
That’s a different story. In my case, I certainly noticed that at times when I was anxious, I would reach for food more often. It had a numbing grounding effect on me. And sometimes it made me feel so debilitated actually. I wasn’t eating apples. It left my body feeling gross. I’d have acid reflux throughout the night, and I wouldn’t do any exercise, and I’d wake up and not drink enough water. I was just like a spiral.
In the end on balance, it didn’t turn out being an effective long term coping strategy for me at all. Whereas for a lot of people I know it is. We all have these coping skills and tools on rotation. When we take the judgement out of them, we’re reaching for the ones that are effective and accessible at the time, and I think when it comes to the short term, at least food is both of those things. So it’s understandable that it would be one of the comforts that people are turning to most frequently. There isn’t as much stigma around it as there is with some of the other substances.
Don’t turn it into a problem
Chloe Brotheridge: Don’t turn it into problem if it’s not a problem for you. If you do comfort eat, don’t then beat yourself up about it and turn it into a problem. It actually might not even be a problem.
Shahroo: I think that we are on high alert for the world telling us that we need fixing. We didn’t even know what’s wrong with us. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good to be aware of health advice. It’s good to be aware. Sometimes people will get really panicked about something. Don’t let one programme you watched make you hate yourself about something you did, like drinking milk.
I’m learning constantly and changing my habits constantly as I learn more. But I think a lot of the time people will think that something should be a problem for them, but it’s actually not. Maybe the byproduct is weight gain. That doesn’t mean that they’re unfit or not happy. It doesn’t mean they’re not beautiful. Maybe it isn’t a problem for them. It just so happens that the weight I was gaining was as a result of treating myself badly. I was barely tasting food the way I was using it.
What’s hidden behind your actions?
Chloe Brotheridge: Yeah, that’s such an interesting distinction. Let’s get back to what you said a moment ago about using food to numb. Normally, I suppose you might hideaway. When I would eat massive bowls of pasta as a teenager and feel really full I’d stay in my room and not talk to anyone. It’s a way of keeping us safe.
I’ve been doing a lot of NLP with clients and a lot of it’s about working on what is the hidden benefit behind what you’re doing. If I keep myself safe by not going out and not living my life to the full, the hidden benefit is that I won’t risk getting rejected. I won’t risk making a mistake or that sort of thing.
Shahroo: It gives us compassion. We think that’s why I’m doing it. There is a reason you continue to do something, the byproduct of which you’re not necessarily happy with. That’s okay.
Chloe Brotheridge: What would you say about good vs bad foods?
What is good or bad?
Shahroo: I think a lot of the time, the good and bad food thing comes as a result of depriving themselves with the bad foods when they’re being good. Then once they get their hands on the bad foods, or they feel the chink in their armour, then they just have all the bad foods they can get their hands on. Until it’s time for good foods again. That usually comes as a result of some sort of experience of deprivation or some idea that got in there that says at some point, I’m not going to be able to eat this food again. So I’m going to eat as much of it as I can now because it’s a bad food.
From my experience, that’s obviously mainly restrictive diets. In our conversations, it’s become clear that some of that comes from when they were younger. For a various range of reasons, there were certain foods that were limited or not available to them. That is where this notion of some foods are good and others are bad comes from. As a result, they haven’t learned to genuinely enjoy those types of foods and moderate quantities. They’ve only ever associated them with falling off the wagon then eating it.
I think a lot of the time, people say things like, I’m bad. I’m being bad today. I’m being naughty. Oh, I’m so naughty.
We’re going to have access to desserts forever. So enjoy it.
Don’t make it all or nothing
Chloe Brotheridge: I think just generally having any kind of binary is of good or bad or all or nothing or no black or white. These binaries that we impose on things in the physical world which don’t actually exist. Like good or bad or all or nothing.
Shahroo: That’s the other problem a lot of my clients have why I wrote The Last Diet. There is so much information out there about what’s good or bad, t’s just overwhelming. And I think a lot of people like me found themselves in a place where they were like, everything is conflicting and contradictory at this stage. Everything in some context is bad. There is no self-kindness in that.
I got to the stage where I thought bananas were bad, but whipped cream was good.
Chloe Brotheridge: Can we talk a bit about mental health then more generally? I’d love to know from you what do you do to take care of your own mental health? How do you what do you do in terms of self-care? Have you found yourself you know, struggling with things like anxiety yourself in the past?
Shahroo: In the past, certainly, anxiety used to be a really a big problem for me. Daily anxiety, you know, up all night palpitations. Writing letters of apology to pretty much everyone I’ve met for just existing. Second guessing every single thing I did.
I’ve put lots of things in place over the years that have helped me manage that better and I’m glad to say that for now, it’s been quite a while. I don’t realise how long anxiety has been away for me until it comes back. I used to worry about what’s going to happen with money, for example, becomming self-employed about 6 years ago.
One of the tools that helps me tech-free mornings and evenings. It’s using my well-being phone that’s got an alarm clock, music, meditation, stuff like that on it. Not looking at emails or social media or text messages or What’s App until I’ve had an hour or so, to do everything else I want to do. Usually that’s just sit in silence and do a bit of writing or have a coffee
A well-being device
I upgraded from the one I had and rather than getting an alarm clock radio, etc., it’s all in one phone that doesn’t have the other distracting bits.
It does have YouTube links for stretches and yoga and things I like doing in the morning depending on how much time I have. like five-minute meditation or 20-minute meditation. One for anxiety, another for self-kindness, whatever.
It is it’s just my sort of go to place for wellness at the click of a button. I also don’t spend much time on Instagram and actually I learned from you about Instagram. I could see this new career of mine sending me down the wrong path with my anxiety. There’s so much new fodder from the reviews to the external validation to people who don’t like you. All these things that are like your worst fears.
I also have a stammer. I’m quite comfortable with you. But actually over the past few days has been really difficult. Other people have noticed who’ve never noticed it before. I’m really struggling to get words out. So again, public speaking, etc, all of these things have meant that I have had to ramp up my self-care and self-kindness in order to be braver.
I have to say, sometimes it’s just little things. I’ve got a boring task to do, I’m going to try and put it off. But I’ve noticed it really does make a difference to me to have the room look nice with music and a candle. And all these little things, I guess, just remind me that my experience of the day matters. It’s a form of self-kindness. I do a lot of meditation and breath work on the weekends. I listen to my hypnotherapy recording.
Chloe Brotheridge: Guys, you need to follow Shahroo on Instagram because you’re extremely funny.
Chloe Brotheridge: You were talking about a kind of a negative review that you’d received but you’d actually reframed it in quite an interesting way. Does self-kindness play a role? Can you share that?
Dealing with criticism
Shahroo: In the beginning I had some bad reviews and criticism that really did bother me. In fact, I remember doing this little emoji chart for myself that I kept on my phone for months and months. I took a screenshot of it and had it on my background. It was like 500 thumbs up emojis, and then like three angry face emojis. I was trying to remind myself not to spend all my time on the angry face emojis
Little exercises like that I find really helpful. The one I read yesterday said that my audiobook was a waste of digital. Sometimes I find insults quite funny. I guess I’m in a luxurious position where I can laugh about it because the vast majority are good. And I’ve got on board with all the tools, including self-kindness, that helped me remember that. So I think it’s really important to laugh at things if you can.
Chloe Brotheridge: Sometimes they even celebrate getting trolled or celebrate getting bad reviews. It’s a sign that you’ve reached a certain point where enough people are aware of you that some people are going to get pissed off by what you’re doing.
Reframe the situation
Shahroo: That’s an interesting one, because I try and reframe it. The thing that has helped me enormously is that one day, I want to be the sort of person who takes criticism really well. Then I think to myself, well, the only way I’m going to become that person is finding opportunities to demonstrate I can engage in the behaviours that sort of person engages in. When someone hasn’t liked something that I’ve done, I try where possible to reframe it as an opportunity to practice responding differently. That’s the only way I’m gonna get good at it.
Chloe Brotheridge: I like reading how other people, people that I admire, respond to criticism. I’m thinking of particularly my mentor, Nisha Moodly, who just has this amazing way of completely staying in integrity when she’s replying to people who are just being unreasonable.
She has this way of just completely remaining in her heart and being kind but also standing up for herself and also holding her own. Sometimes I like to remind myself how other people deal with things and really try and emulate that. Almost like having a role model for how you can respond. Offering self-kindness
Shahroo: You know what also helps, go to the best book you’ve ever read. Go on Amazon reviews, and you’ll see someone who doesn’t like it. I’ve found that really helpful.
Like Daniel Kahneman, Thinking Fast and Slow. That’s probably one of the best books I’ve ever read. I remember seeing a review for it that was bad. And I was like, Oh, no, I wildly disagree with you.
Questions to ask yourself
I got so used to assuming that when there was a problem brought to me that it was my fault, that I’d done something wrong. I didn’t spend a second thinking hold on before I decide to take this on myself. Do I want to sit and think about this reasonably before I start apologising to myself and adapting what I do? Do I even want to give some thought to whether I agree with this person? Why does my opinion of myself come into the mix?
That was a real revelation to me. If I wanted some opinions on something I was doing, and say, I wanted four opinions, I didn’t realise that that meant three people plus me my opinion, and that was a real learning curve for me. It has helped enormously with the criticism thing, too, because sometimes I agree. You know, sometimes a person will say something like this, this would have been better if she’d done this, and I think you’re smart. I will next time. Thank you. Self-kindness helps too.
Chloe Brotheridge: I think it can be really helpful if you can gain something from that criticism and use it to help you to get better.
Chloe Brotheridge: I quite often ask people if there’s anything that you’re struggling with at the moment, and how are you overcoming it?
What’s tricky now
Shahroo: I really miss my mom? The way I’m overcoming it to be honest with you as I speak to her so often throughout the day, but by the time it’s like 8pm, frankly, I need a break. What was the lesson that evening? I miss my mom. I feel like it’s bothering me that my parents are vulnerable right now. That’s it. My overriding thing that’s kind of on my mind isn’t really about me. I’m doing fine and what I need to do. I do my volunteering, it gives me perspective, all of that stuff, meditating, exercising, self-kindess.
I know how important it is for my parent’s mental health to be outside and to see their friends and stay connected. Gratitude and trying to pass that on in every conversation I have. It’s difficult, isn’t it? I really acknowledge how much extraordinary pressure people are under and also, let’s count our blessings at the same time. It’s a difficult one to manage.
Coping in lockdown
Chloe Brotheridge: I’m hearing that a lot from people about trying to use gratitude as much as possible and to stay positive. And self-kindness. I know a lot of people even saying that this situation is almost causing them to feel more grateful. Maybe if we feel like we’ve lost something, or we might lose something, it makes us more grateful for the things we have. I don’t know if that even works that way. But I think it seems like a lot of people are saying they’re feeling very grateful at the moment, or trying to focus on that as a way of dealing with this situation.
Shahroo: There are some people I’m speaking to whether they’re working in health care or their income has been cut, it’s impacting them already in a very obvious way.
These are things that I can’t say are impacting my family in the same way. If that’s the worst you’re dealing with right now, then you’re incredibly, incredibly lucky. That’s self-kindness talking too. Then that does make you feel calmer and gives me more energy to reach out to others. I practice self-kindness.
Chloe Brotheridge: I know that doing some kind of volunteering can be really beneficial for our mental health, helping others connecting ourselves to something bigger than ourselves. Having a sense of perspective, I think could be helpful. Do you? Do you think that volunteering can be good for mental health? How has it helped you?
Volunteering and mental health
Shahroo: I think it depends on how you’re feeling about your mental health at the time and picking an area to volunteer that may or may not find triggering. Check-in with yourself about before you do it. I find it enormously important for me to do things without expecting anything in return. That feeling I get when I have done that and not needing any kind of acknowledgment. It almost feels selfish. It’s so grounding and calming. This reminds me of why we’re all here and gives me perspective. Also, helping me zoom out so much. A form of self-kindness.
I want to work with people
It also reminds me that ultimately, I want to work with people. Yes, it’s scarier, there are more risks, you know, than if you were working with spreadsheets and things like that. But it’s when I volunteer, it’s when I speak to people who are truly in need, and that I realise that I’m on the right track working with humans.
Chloe Brotheridge: I really enjoy our chats always. I’m glad to get to share more of your your insights and your wisdom today. Can you tell everyone listening where they can find out more about you and what you’re up to what sort of things you offer and that sort of thing?
How to reach Shahroo
I’m on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, got a website, I’ve got a newsletter you can sign up to, if you go on my website, which has like a monthly newsletter where I look at all the questions and requests that I’ve got in that month. I draw a theme out and provide a video and an article around that theme. I also give out free exercise every month. So that comes out at the end of the month. Also, I give all sorts of talks, workshop sessions, all of those things, but it’s all on my website and Instagram.
Chloe Brotheridge: Yes, definitely check out her Instagram. And just in terms of your one on one sessions, what sort of issues do you help people with?
1 to 1 work
Shahroo: I tend to see people wants for an intensive session, which is just under two hours. We establish why they feel they’re not able to make changes by themselves. I help them to formalise a proper action plan that they go away and implement themselves. It’s all in the spirit of me handing things over to people, as opposed to people becoming, feeling that they need me in any way. AIt’s certainly not a traditional talking therapy. I’m not a counsellor. It’s essentially saying, if I’ve written these books, I’ve read these books, and I’ve done this training, and I’ve had all this personal experience. I’ve put it all together, and now I have this huge bank of resources and different exercises and approaches.
A personal self-help book
I ask them questions through things like motivational interviewing approaches like that asset-based working. How is their self-kindness. I draw out the self-knowledge that they need to create a plan that’s truly bespoke. A plan that really doesn’t need me to be part of it anymore. I send it to them within a couple of days, like a little personalised section of a self-help book.
You Thank you, Chloe. Lovely to chat and I’ll talk to you soon.
Chloe Brotheridge: Thank you so much for listening. I really hope that you gained a lot from this episode. Come on over to Instagram and let me know what are you taking from this episode. Find me at Chloe Brotheridge.
I would love it if you would leave me a review in the podcast app on iTunes, subscribe to the podcast, leave me a rating. If there someone in your life that would really benefit from this podcast, you can let them know by sharing this podcast. I’d be so so grateful. So I’m just wishing you a wonderful week ahead, sending love.